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Gilu
Expert member
7216 mesaje
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Re: Oul de gaina....
scris pe 9 sep 2011 21:59 de Gilu
Nu este nici o diferenta daca are 200g intr-o singura masa fie la 6 dimineata dupa care s-ar duce la sala la 10 seara, sau 4 mese a cate 50g de-a lungul zilei.
Ca de obicei, pot sa postez link-uri stiintifice care dovedesc tot ce am spus Vreau link stiintific care demonstreaza ca un om poate digera si asimila 200g proteina la o singura masa.Multumesc.Astept....
Cand esti mort nu stii ca esti mort, e greu doar pt ceilalti, la fel si cand esti prost...
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nicu_ivan
Expert member
899 mesaje
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Re: Oul de gaina....
scris pe 9 sep 2011 22:04 de nicu_ivan
1. deci fulgii de ovaz sunt cea mai valoroasa sursa de carbs.....fiindca tu spui asta. Ce ar fi sa dovedesti? fiindca dupa cateva ore in sistemul digestiv orice carbohidrat este transformat in acelasi lucru.
2. decat daca ai o predispozitie medicala existenta, ce ai postat despre galbenus + ficat este o mare aberatie.
3. inca o data, ar trebui sa acceptam afirmatia ta ca pe un fapt, doar fiindca tu spui asta? Viteza de digestie a proteinei nu inseamna absolut nimic. Daca tu crezi contrariul, ce ar fi sa devii un membru de forum ajutator si sa ne educi pe restul cu niste link-uri? Multumesc
Viteza de digestie a proteinei insemna foarte, foarte, foarte mult. Hai sa iti dau un exemplu: dupa antrenament vrei proteine cu viteza de digestie rapida.... pe cand inainte de culcare vrei proteine care se digera mai lent.
Think about it... in functie de in ce situatie se afla corpul... are nevoie mai repede de anumiti nutrienti, duh. Si daca urmeaza sa dormi 8 ore.... nu cred ca vrei sa ti se digere in prima ora proteinele.
Life sucks.... but in a beautifull kinda way
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nicu_ivan
Expert member
899 mesaje
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Re: Oul de gaina....
scris pe 9 sep 2011 22:06 de nicu_ivan
Vreau link stiintific care demonstreaza ca un om poate digera si asimila 200g proteina la o singura masa.Multumesc.Astept....
 Abi astept sa vad linku asta )
Editat de nicu_ivan pe 9 sep 2011 22:08
Life sucks.... but in a beautifull kinda way
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basu
Expert member
7247 mesaje
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Re: Oul de gaina....
scris pe 9 sep 2011 22:19 de basu
Abi astept sa vad linku asta )
poate sa o considere prima si ultima avertizare inainte de stergere sau chiar banare. nu poate fi permis chiar orice aici. sper ca intelege macar de data asta ce spun.
Puterea vine din interior. Intotdeauna.
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branch
Veteran member
156 mesaje
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Re: Oul de gaina....
scris pe 10 sep 2011 10:52 de branch
Nu am nici cea mai vaga idee despre ce incerci sa spui. Daca o proteine se digera in 7 ore sau nu, nu are nici o importanta.
De exemplu, sa presupunem ca un barbat are nevoie de 200g de proteine pe zi. Nu conteaza deloc in cat timp se digera proteina. Nu este nici o diferenta daca are 200g intr-o singura masa fie la 6 dimineata dupa care s-ar duce la sala la 10 seara, sau 4 mese a cate 50g de-a lungul zilei.
Ca de obicei, pot sa postez link-uri stiintifice care dovedesc tot ce am spus, dar pana acum se pare ca preferi opinii incorecte in locul faptelor. Daca altcineva care citeste asta doreste link-urile, sa imi spuneti si le voi posta.
vb prostii domnu sau doamna. mai invata. si nu ne mai timpii cu link-uri. arata clar ce mari rezultate ai obtinut tu daca vrei sa credem ce spui. nu se metabolizeaza atita proteina la o masa. toata lumea stie asta. de la bunica ta si pina lA jay cutler. de asta toata lumea asta maninca de atitea ori pe zi. probabil ca nu au descoperit link-urile tale. daca nu ai habar ce vb nu iti mai da cu parereA. iar referitor la celelalte postari greu sa vezi atitea prostii la un loc. proteinele nu sunt la fel. natura le-a facut asa nu noi. toata lumea stie asta. esti o habarnista si te-ai gindit sa-l inveti pe cine? pe basu. nu cred ca esti sanatoasa. nu ma mir ca nu ti-a raspuns si te=a lasat asa. dar daca te uiti pe forum a explicat baietilor (evident celor care nu prea stiu si care l-au intrebat) tot ce trebuie despre toate aceste lucruri. daca eram in locul lui iti stergeam toate prostiile dintr-o miscare. dute si mai invata. ce-ar fi sa pui si niste poze ca sa vedem ce stii sa faci.
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basu
Expert member
7247 mesaje
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Re: Oul de gaina....
scris pe 10 sep 2011 14:00 de basu
este valabil acelasi lucru ptr domnul Branch .
Puterea vine din interior. Intotdeauna.
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Gilu
Expert member
7216 mesaje
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Re: Oul de gaina....
scris pe 10 sep 2011 14:01 de Gilu
vb prostii domnu sau doamna. mai invata. si nu ne mai timpii cu link-uri. arata clar ce mari rezultate ai obtinut tu daca vrei sa credem ce spui. nu se metabolizeaza atita proteina la o masa. toata lumea stie asta. de la bunica ta si pina lA jay cutler. de asta toata lumea asta maninca de atitea ori pe zi. probabil ca nu au descoperit link-urile tale. daca nu ai habar ce vb nu iti mai da cu parereA. iar referitor la celelalte postari greu sa vezi atitea prostii la un loc. proteinele nu sunt la fel. natura le-a facut asa nu noi. toata lumea stie asta. esti o habarnista si te-ai gindit sa-l inveti pe cine? pe basu. nu cred ca esti sanatoasa. nu ma mir ca nu ti-a raspuns si te=a lasat asa. dar daca te uiti pe forum a explicat baietilor (evident celor care nu prea stiu si care l-au intrebat) tot ce trebuie despre toate aceste lucruri. daca eram in locul lui iti stergeam toate prostiile dintr-o miscare. dute si mai invata. ce-ar fi sa pui si niste poze ca sa vedem ce stii sa faci.
Branch te rog foloseste un ton mai calm.
Cand esti mort nu stii ca esti mort, e greu doar pt ceilalti, la fel si cand esti prost...
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blackadder
Senior member
68 mesaje
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Re: Oul de gaina....
scris pe 10 sep 2011 19:46 de blackadder
Buna tuturor,
Voi posta cat de curand, dar vroaim mai intai sa ma asigur daca este in regula sa pun un link la un alt website care are propriul forum, desi raportul la care fac trimitere nu este in sectiunea de forum. Multumesc
Ca sa fiu clara, asta este in ref. cu posibilitatea absorbtiei/digestiei a 200g de proteine intr-o singura masa. Multumesc
Editat de blackadder pe 10 sep 2011 21:42
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basu
Expert member
7247 mesaje
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Re: Oul de gaina....
scris pe 11 sep 2011 15:28 de basu
Nu o sa ma poti convinge ca nu conteaza viteza de absortie a proteinei si ca poti sa digeri 600 gr de proteina deodata.....
esti un barbat mare, rau si arogant. care nu vrea sa stie ce este bine pt el.
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Gilu
Expert member
7216 mesaje
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Re: Oul de gaina....
scris pe 11 sep 2011 17:18 de Gilu
Din pacate nu am timp sa citesc tot studiul...
Este cineva binevoitor sa imi copieze si mie aici partea din studiu unde se demonstreaza ca daca mananci 200g proteina la o masa, o asimilezi toata si nu se pierde nimic din cauza cantitatii uriase?
Sa fim seriosi, e o tampenie, in felul asta (mancand o singura data sau sa zic de 2 ori/zi) iti incetinesti metabolismul si ajungi sa te imbolnavesti.
Cand esti mort nu stii ca esti mort, e greu doar pt ceilalti, la fel si cand esti prost...
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nicu_ivan
Expert member
899 mesaje
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Re: Oul de gaina....
scris pe 11 sep 2011 17:23 de nicu_ivan
esti un barbat mare, rau si arogant. care nu vrea sa stie ce este bine pt el.
Tu aici glumeai, nu?
In caz ca nu s-a inteles clar din posturile mele: eu nu cred in ce sustine blackadder. Eu sunt de parerea lui Gilu, ca genu asta de alimentatie te imbolnaveste.
Editat de nicu_ivan pe 11 sep 2011 17:26
Life sucks.... but in a beautifull kinda way
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blackadder
Senior member
68 mesaje
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Re: Oul de gaina....
scris pe 11 sep 2011 19:00 de blackadder
Nu o sa ma poti convinge ca nu conteaza viteza de absortie a proteinei si ca poti sa digeri 600 gr de proteina deodata.....
1. Ei bine am postat dovada ref. la viteza digestiei, desi nu te pot convinge sa crezi, dar asta este exact ce face corpul tau zi de zi.
2. Nici nu ai citit raportul, asa-i? Era vorba de 600g de pizza, NU de proteine. Oh Doamne!
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blackadder
Senior member
68 mesaje
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Re: Oul de gaina....
scris pe 11 sep 2011 19:11 de blackadder
Din pacate nu am timp sa citesc tot studiul...
Este cineva binevoitor sa imi copieze si mie aici partea din studiu unde se demonstreaza ca daca mananci 200g proteina la o masa, o asimilezi toata si nu se pierde nimic din cauza cantitatii uriase?
Sa fim seriosi, e o tampenie, in felul asta (mancand o singura data sau sa zic de 2 ori/zi) iti incetinesti metabolismul si ajungi sa te imbolnavesti.
Salut Gilu,
Scuze pentru asta, dar s-a produs o confuzie creata de raspunsul superinteligent al lui Nicu, in care a incurcat 600g de proteine cu 600g de pizza, desi in apararea lui, ambele cuvinte incep cu litera 'P'....
Postul meu a fost un mesaj clar menit sa corecteze opinia nesustinuta a lui Nicu despre digestia rapida/inceata a proteinelor.
Studiul postat, desi are legatura cu portia de 200g de proteine, nu este raspunsul meu la acest subiect. De asemenea, nu este raspunsul la solicitarea ta.
Te rog sa vezi acest post al meu ' scris pe 10 sep 2011 19:46 de blackadder ' in care intreb daca este permisa postarea unui link. Astept in continuare raspuns inainte de a proceda mai departe. Tu ai autoritatea Gilu sa raspunzi daca este in regula cu regulile forumului?
Eu sunt gata sa postez, doar trebuie sa mi se spuna ca am voie. Acum trebuie sa plec, dar voi incerca sa verific forumul in seara asta, daca nu atunci cel mai devreme in cursul zilei de maine.
Mersi
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Gilu
Expert member
7216 mesaje
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Re: Oul de gaina....
scris pe 11 sep 2011 19:48 de Gilu
Salut.
Nu sunt permise link-uri catre site-uri concurente, dar poti da copy-paste, ar fi acelasi lucru.Deci asimilezi 200g proteine la o masa sau nu?))
Cand esti mort nu stii ca esti mort, e greu doar pt ceilalti, la fel si cand esti prost...
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nicu_ivan
Expert member
899 mesaje
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Re: Oul de gaina....
scris pe 11 sep 2011 21:02 de nicu_ivan
1. Ei bine am postat dovada ref. la viteza digestiei, desi nu te pot convinge sa crezi, dar asta este exact ce face corpul tau zi de zi.
2. Nici nu ai citit raportul, asa-i? Era vorba de 600g de pizza, NU de proteine. Oh Doamne!
In primul rand nu am confundat 600 gr de pizza cu 600 gr proteine. Pur si simplu parodiam cele 200 de gr de proteine care sustii tu ca se pot digera.
In al doilea rand... vreau sa vad articolul care sustine ca se pot digera 200 gr de proteine...
Life sucks.... but in a beautifull kinda way
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basu
Expert member
7247 mesaje
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Re: Oul de gaina....
scris pe 11 sep 2011 22:24 de basu
exista o infinitate de studii facute . multe sunt in europa multe in america. sunt folositi tot felul de subiecti. marea majoritate nu sunt sportivi sau daca sunt nu au legatura cu sportul nostru.
nu am nici un motiv sa ma iau acum dupa nu stiu ce studiu sau pagina de pe internet. daca ati stii cite studii medicale am citit eu .... pt cultura voastra medicina alopata este total contra culturismului. daca aceste studii ar avea vreo relevanta va asigur pe toti ca , culturistii profesionisti si cei americani in primul rind ar fi primii care ar cunoaste marile adevaruri pe care se pare ca noi nu vream sa le intelegem. si ar actiona in consecinta. dar nu este asa. ei respecta aceleasi principii pe care le respectam si noi si asta este motivul pt care sunt ce sunt.
cele sustinute de colega / colegul de forum nu ma vor convinge niciodata pe mine sa-mi schimb ceva in modul de a gindii sau de a intelege aceste fenomene pt simplu motiv ca sunt niste prosii. corpul uman nu functioneaza asa . am invatat suficient in ultimii 20 de ani de sport si in cei aproape 17 ani de medicina.
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basu
Expert member
7247 mesaje
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Re: Oul de gaina....
scris pe 11 sep 2011 22:26 de basu
Tu aici glumeai, nu?
In caz ca nu s-a inteles clar din posturile mele: eu nu cred in ce sustine blackadder. Eu sunt de parerea lui Gilu, ca genu asta de alimentatie te imbolnaveste.
eu evident ca glumeam nicule dar se pare ca colega/colegul de topic nu glumeste.
Puterea vine din interior. Intotdeauna.
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stefanp
Expert member
893 mesaje
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Re: Oul de gaina....
scris pe 11 sep 2011 22:49 de stefanp
eu evident ca glumeam nicule dar se pare ca colega/colegul de topic nu glumeste.
sincer, corpul omenesc ,,ASIMILEAZA,,aproximativ 40-50gr proteina la o singura masa culturistii profesionisti consuma 400-500gr proteine ...INTR O ZI,nu la o masa e IMPOSIBIL sa asimilezi 200gr proteine la o singura masatrageti singuri concluziiledaca nu stapiniti,,SUBIECTUL,,nu mai dati raspunsuri ERONATE
Editat de stefanp pe 11 sep 2011 23:36
NU RASPUND LA PM.
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nicu_ivan
Expert member
899 mesaje
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Re: Oul de gaina....
scris pe 11 sep 2011 23:22 de nicu_ivan
eu evident ca glumeam nicule dar se pare ca colega/colegul de topic nu glumeste.
[pt. basu]:  mi-am dat seama ca glumesti, am intrebat doar ca sa fie clar si pt altii(gen blackadder).
[pt blackadder]: Vreau sa se stie ca eu plec din start cu ideea ca am multe de invatat de pe acest forum. Sunt multi a caror parere pt mine e o lectie foarte importanta(ex: gilu, basu, gerogik etc). Atat mintea si informatiile mele, cat si studiile stiintifice, cat si toti acesti oameni sustin ca nu se pot asimila 200 gr proteine la o masa..... de ce as crede ca se pot?
Editat de nicu_ivan pe 11 sep 2011 23:23
Life sucks.... but in a beautifull kinda way
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Gilu
Expert member
7216 mesaje
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Re: Oul de gaina....
scris pe 12 sep 2011 00:32 de Gilu
Ai dreptate, dar lucrurile stau tocmai invers. S-a dovedit de fapt ca NU exista vreo legatura intre colesterolul din alimentatie si cel din sange*. Iti pot da link la numeroase studii stiintifice daca esti interesat, doar ca sunt in engleza.
* daca nu exista o predispozitie medicala
Mananc 3 oua in fiecare zi si la analize mi-a iesit sub limita HDL si LDL.
Cand esti mort nu stii ca esti mort, e greu doar pt ceilalti, la fel si cand esti prost...
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Gilu
Expert member
7216 mesaje
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Re: Oul de gaina....
scris pe 12 sep 2011 00:48 de Gilu
Scuze pentru asta, dar s-a produs o confuzie creata de raspunsul superinteligent al lui Nicu, in care a incurcat 600g de proteine cu 600g de pizza, desi in apararea lui, ambele cuvinte incep cu litera 'P'....
Nu inteleg despre ce confuzie este vb.Eu in primul post de pe pagina asta am dat quote la ce ai scris tu.....si anume ca nu are importanta daca mananci odata 200g proteina sau impartita la mai multe mese.Nu ma intereseaza cui ce i-ai raspuns si ce a inteles.Eu doar am extras fraza din postul tau.
Cand esti mort nu stii ca esti mort, e greu doar pt ceilalti, la fel si cand esti prost...
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basu
Expert member
7247 mesaje
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Re: Oul de gaina....
scris pe 12 sep 2011 08:58 de basu
Mananc 3 oua in fiecare zi si la analize mi-a iesit sub limita HDL si LDL.
orice parametru din organism este bun daca este in limite normale, adica nici prea mare, nici prea mic.
situatia este valabila si in cazul colesterolului.
exista si situatii de colesterol mic, cele mai frecvente cauze fiind:
scaderea sintezei la nivelul ficatului (ca in ciroza hepatica)
consumul colesterolului in cazul regenerarilor celulare (anemii severe, cancere, sarcina)
arderilor excesive (ca in hipertiroidie)
tulburari in absorbtia intestinala a colesterolului
pierderi de colesterol prin mucoasa intestinala
malnutritia
regim vegetarian excesiv
un mod de viata excesiv de obositor si stresant. in situatia asta se poate inregistra si o crestere peste limite si de obicei asa se si intimpla.
nu trebuie sa ne gindim neparat la asta si in cazul tau. oricum trei oua nu pot face diferenta clara. mai ales ca esti sportiv. dar eu cred ca ar trebui sa te mai uiti catre analize uneori.
dar ca sa revenim la subiectul topicului nostru va spun la toti clar ca nu este recomandat sa consumati alimente bogate in colesterol. pot exista si alte surse de informare cum ar fi medicul hepatolog . dar nu link-urile de pe net. nu va educati prosteste pe internet.
Editat de basu pe 12 sep 2011 08:59
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blackadder
Senior member
68 mesaje
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Re: Oul de gaina....
scris pe 13 sep 2011 00:13 de blackadder
Buna tuturor,
Scuze, dar am fost aglomerata in ultimele zile.
Ceea ce va voi fi nevoita sa fac este sa postez un articol bazat pe numeroase studii stiintifice, care sunt enumerate in subsol. Cu scuzele de rigoare, articolele fiind in engleza, dar daca este cazul voi traduce concluziile, si voi reveni in urmatoarele zile cu explicatii la afirmatii. Totodata, voi posta si un alt articol despre frecventa meselor care sustine articolele si studiile mai sus mentionate, dar dintr-un alt punct de vedere si in acelasi timp cu niste concluzii vitale. Sper ca este in regula
Ok, scuze pentru textul lung, dar mi s-a spus ca nu pot posta link-ul direct.
In ceea ce priveste capacitatea corpului uman sa manance, digere si sa foloseasca 200g de proteine intr-o singura masa...
"Is there a limit to how much protein the body can use in a single meal?
by Alan Aragon.
Introduction
A longstanding belief in fitness circles is that the body can only use a certain amount of protein per meal, and the excess is either oxidized or excreted. The ballpark range thrown around is 20-30 grams, with 30 grams being perhaps the most common figure.
This guideline has led many trainees to go through the pains of consuming multiple doses of protein throughout the day, banking that it will maximize muscle anabolism or muscle retention.
Well, true or not, this concept fits in nicely with another longstanding fitness “rule” that you have to eat at least six times per day in order to keep the body’s metabolism revving high. Since the meal frequency and metabolism dogma has been thoroughly debunked [1-5], it’s time to dig into the topic of whether there’s a limit to effective protein dosing, and if so, what that limit might be.
Looking at simple logic first
Let’s imagine an experiment involving two relatively lean 200 lb individuals. For the purposes of this illustration, I’ll assign a daily amount of protein known to adequately support the needs of the athletic population. We’ll give Person A 150 g protein spread over five meals at 30 g each. We’ll give Person B the same amount of protein, but in a single meal. Let’s say that this meal consists of a 16 oz steak, chased with a shake containing two scoops of protein powder.
If we really believed that only 30 g protein can be handled by the body in a single meal, then Person B would eventually run into protein deficiency symptoms because he supposedly is only absorbing a total of 30 g out of the 150 g we’re giving him. At 30 g/day, he’s only getting 0.33 g/kg of bodyweight, which isn’t even half of the already-low RDA of 0.8 g/kg. If the body worked this way, the human species would have quickly become extinct. The human body is more efficient and effective than we give it credit for.
The body will take all the sweet time it needs to effectively digest and absorb just about whatever dose you give it. Person A will have shorter digestion periods per meal in order to effectively absorb and utilize the small meals. Person B will have a longer digestion period in order to effectively absorb and utilize the large meal. While the truth in this logic seems self-evident, the important question is whether or not it’s supported by scientific research. Let’s look at the evidence, starting with immediate-effect (acute) studies, then move on to the longer-term trials.
Research examining speed of absorption
A thorough literature review by Bilsborough and Mann compiled data from studies by various investigators who measured the absorption rates of various protein sources [6]. Oddly, an amino acid mixture designed to mimic the composition of pork tenderloin made the top spot, at 10 g/hour, while whey took a close second at 8-10 g/hour. Other proteins fell in their respective spots below the top two, with little rhyme or reason behind the outcomes. As a matter of trivia, raw egg protein was the most slowly absorbed of them all at 1.3 g/hour.
It’s important to note that these data have some serious limitations. A major one is the variance of the methods used to determine the absorption rates (i.e., intravenous infusion, oral ingestion, ileal ingestion). Most of the methods are just too crude or far-fetched for serious consideration. Another limitation is that these figures could be skewed depending upon their concentration in solution, which can affect their rate of gastric evacuation. Another factor to consider is the timing of ingestion relative to exercise and how that might differentially affect absorption rates. Finally, short-term data leaves a lot open to question.
Short-term research supporting the magic limit
I’ve heard many folks parrot that the maximal anabolic effect of a single protein dose is limited to 20 grams, citing recent work by Moore and colleagues [7]. In this study’s 4-hour post-exercise test period, 40 g protein did not elicit a greater anabolic response than 20 g. I’d interpret these outcomes with caution. Fundamentally speaking, protein utilization can differ according to muscle mass. The requirements of a 140-lb person will differ markedly from someone who’s a lean 200. Additionally, a relatively low amount of total volume was used (12 sets total). Typical training bouts usually involve more than one muscle group and are commonly at least double that volume, which can potentially increase the demand for nutrient uptake. Finally, the conclusion of the authors is questionable. They state explicitly,
“…we speculate that no more than 5-6 times daily could one ingest this amount (~20 g) of protein and expect muscle protein synthesis to be maximally stimulated.”
So, they’re implying that 100-120 grams of protein per day is maximal for promoting muscle growth. Wait a minute, what? Based on both the bulk of the research evidence and numerous field observations, this is simply false [8,9].
In another recent study, Symons and colleagues compared the 5-hour response of a moderate serving of lean beef containing 30 g protein with a large serving containing 90 g protein [10]. The smaller serving increased protein synthesis by approximately 50%, and the larger serving caused no further increase in protein synthesis, despite being triple the dose. The researchers concluded that the ingestion of more than 30 g protein in a single meal does not further enhance muscle protein synthesis. While their conclusion indeed supports the outcomes of their short-term study, it’s pretty easy to predict the outcomes in muscle size and strength if we compared a total daily protein dose of 90 g with 30 g over a longer trial period, let alone one involving a structured exercise protocol. This brings me to the crucial point that acute outcomes merely provide grounds for hypothesis. It’s not completely meaningless, but it’s far from conclusive without examining the long-term effects.
Longer-term research challenging the magic limit
If we were to believe the premise that a 20-30 g dose of protein yields a maximal anabolic effect, then it follows that any excess beyond this dose would be wasted. On the contrary, the body is smarter than that. In a 14-day trial, Arnal and colleagues found no difference in fat-free mass or nitrogen retention between consuming 79% of the day’s protein needs (roughly 54 g) in one meal, versus the same amount spread across four meals [11].
Notably, this study was done on young female adults whose fat-free mass averaged 40.8 kg (89.8 lb). Considering that most non-sedentary males have considerably more lean mass than the female subjects used in the aforementioned trial, it’s plausible that much more than 54 g protein in a single meal can be efficiently processed for anabolic and/or anti-catabolic purposes. If we extrapolated the protein dose used in this study (79% of 1.67g/kg) to the average adult male, it would be roughly 85-95 g or even more, depending on just how close someone is to the end of the upper limits of muscular size.
When Arnal and colleagues applied the same protocol to the elderly population, the single-dose treatment actually caused better muscle protein retention than the multiple-dose treatment [12]. This raises the possibility that as we age, larger protein feedings might be necessary to achieve the same effect on protein retention as lesser amounts in our youth.
IF research nailing the coffin shut?
Perhaps the strongest case against the idea of a dosing limit beyond which anabolism or muscle retention can occur is the recent intermittent fasting (IF) research, particularly the trials with a control group on a conventional diet. For example, Soeters and colleagues compared two weeks of IF involving 20-hour fasting cycles with a conventional diet [13]. Despite the IF group’s consumption of an average of 101 g protein in a 4-hour window, there was no difference in preservation of lean mass and muscle protein between groups.
In another example, Stote and colleagues actually reported an improvement in body composition (including an increase in lean mass) after 8 weeks in the IF group consuming one meal per day, where roughly 86 g protein was ingested in a 4-hour window [14]. Interestingly, the conventional group consuming three meals spread throughout the day showed no significant body composition improvements.
Keep in mind that bioelectrical impedance (BIA) was used to determine body composition, so these outcomes should be viewed with caution. I’ve been highly critical of this study in the past, and I still am. Nevertheless, it cannot be completely written off and must be factored into the body of evidence against the idea of a magic protein dose limit.
Conclusion & application
Based on the available evidence, it’s false to assume that the body can only use a certain amount of protein per meal. Studies examining short-term effects have provided hints towards what might be an optimal protein dose for maximizing anabolism, but trials drawn out over longer periods haven’t supported this idea. So, is there a limit to how much protein per meal can be effectively used? Yes there is, but this limit is likely similar to the amount that’s maximally effective in an entire day. What’s the most protein that the body can effectively use in an entire day? The short answer is, a lot more than 20-30 g. The long answer is, it depends on several factors. In most cases it’s not too far from a gram per pound in drug-free trainees, given that adequate total calories are provided [8,9].
In terms of application, I’ve consistently observed the effectiveness of having approximately a quarter of your target bodyweight in both the pre- and post-exercise meal. Note: target bodyweight is a surrogate index of lean mass, and I use that to avoid making skewed calculations in cases where individuals are markedly over- or underweight. This dose surpasses the amounts seen to cause a maximal anabolic response but doesn’t impinge upon the rest of the day’s protein allotment, which can be distributed as desired. On days off from training, combine or split up your total protein allotment according to your personal preference and digestive tolerance. I realize that freedom and flexibility are uncommon terms in physique culture, but maybe it’s time for a paradigm shift.
In sum, view all information – especially gym folklore and short-term research – with caution. Don’t buy into the myth that protein won’t get used efficiently unless it’s dosed sparingly throughout the day. Hopefully, future research will definitively answer how different dosing schemes with various protein types affect relevant endpoints such as size and strength.
About Alan Aragon
Alan Aragon has over 15 years of success in the fitness field. He earned his Bachelor and Master of Science in Nutrition with top honors. Alan is a continuing education provider for the Commission on Dietetic Registration, National Academy of Sports Medicine, American Council on Exercise, and National Strength & Conditioning Association. Alan recently lectured to clinicians at the FDA and the annual conference of the Los Angeles Dietetic Association.
He maintains a private practice designing programs for recreational, Olympic, and professional athletes, including the Los Angeles Lakers, Los Angeles Kings, and Anaheim Mighty Ducks. Alan is a contributing editor and Weight Loss Coach of Men’s Health magazine.
His book Girth Control is considered one of the most in-depth manuals for physique improvement and understanding nutrition for fitness & sports. Last but not least, Alan writes a monthly research review providing of the latest science on nutrition, training, and supplementation.
References
1. Smeets AJ, Westerterp-Plantenga MS. Acute effects on metabolism and appetite profile of one meal difference in the lower range of meal frequency. Br J Nutr. 2008 Jun;99(6):1316-21.
2. Taylor MA, Garrow JS. Compared with nibbling, neither gorging nor a morning fast affect short-term energy balance in obese patients in a chamber calorimeter. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2001 Apr;25(4):519-28.
3. Bellisle F, McDevitt R, Prentice AM. Meal frequency and energy balance. Br J Nutr. 1997 Apr;77 Suppl 1:S57-70.
4. Verboeket-van de Venne WP, Westerterp KR. Frequency of feeding, weight reduction and energy metabolism. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 1993 Jan;17(1):31-6.
5. Verboeket-van de Venne WP, Westerterp KR. Influence of the feeding frequency on nutrient utilization in man: consequences for energy metabolism. Eur J Clin Nutr. 1991 Mar;45(3):161-9.
6. Bilsborough S, Mann N. A review of issues of dietary protein intake in humans. Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2006 Apr;16(2):129-52.
7. Moore DR, et al. Ingested protein dose response of muscle and albumin protein synthesis after resistance exercise in young men. Am J Clin Nutr. 2009 Jan;89(1):161-8.
8. Campbell B, et al. International Society of Sports Nutrition position stand: protein and exercise. J Int Soc Sports Nutr. 2007 Sep 26;4:8.
9. Tipton KD, Wolfe RR. Protein and amino acids for athletes. J Sports Sci. 2004 Jan;22(1):65-79.
10. Symons TB, et al. A moderate serving of high-quality protein maximally stimulates skeletal muscle protein synthesis in young and elderly subjects. J Am Diet Assoc. 2009 Sep;109(9):1582-6.
11. Arnal MA, et al. Protein feeding pattern does not affect protein retention in young women. J Nutr. 2000 Jul;130(7):1700-4.
12. Arnal MA, et al. Protein pulse feeding improves protein retention in elderly women. Am J Clin Nutr. 1999 Jun;69(6):1202-8.
13. Soeters MR, et al. Intermittent fasting does not affect whole-body glucose, lipid, or protein metabolism. Am J Clin Nutr. 2009 Nov;90(5):1244-51.
14. Stote KS, et al. A controlled trial of reduced meal frequency without caloric restriction in healthy, normal-weight, middle-aged adults. Am J Clin Nutr. 2007 Apr;85(4):981-8.
Dupa cum am mentionat, voi reveni sa discut punctele sensibile daca cineva doreste. De asemenea, tin sa precizez ca am spus ca nu conteaza cand mananci sau daca mananci toate caloriile dintr-o zi intr-o singura masa, nu am spus ca 4 sau 6 mese pe zi nu functioneaza sau ca o singura masa pe zi este 'mai buna', ci doar ca nu este nici o diferenta. Personal mananc de la 1 la 5 mese pe zi in functie de rutina din ziua respectiva, dar chiar nu exista vreo diferenta dpdv al dezvoltarii musculare sau sanatatii.
Totodata, cand revin as dori sa discut despre 'metabolism' fiindca Gilu a precizat intr-un post anterior ca mancatul unei singure mese sau 2 pe zi ar schimba metabolismul, cel mai probabil ducand la incentinire, lucru care este un mit.
Ok deci scuze ca dispar (si pentru uratenia acestui post) dar voi reveni in una sau doua zile.
Multumesc pentru rabdare.
Editat de blackadder pe 13 sep 2011 00:14
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nuk
Veteran member
246 mesaje
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Re: Oul de gaina....
scris pe 13 sep 2011 01:35 de nuk
Buna tuturor,
Scuze, dar am fost aglomerata in ultimele zile.
Ceea ce va voi fi nevoita sa fac este sa postez un articol bazat pe numeroase studii stiintifice, care sunt enumerate in subsol. Cu scuzele de rigoare, articolele fiind in engleza, dar daca este cazul voi traduce concluziile, si voi reveni in urmatoarele zile cu explicatii la afirmatii. Totodata, voi posta si un alt articol despre frecventa meselor care sustine articolele si studiile mai sus mentionate, dar dintr-un alt punct de vedere si in acelasi timp cu niste concluzii vitale. Sper ca este in regula
Ok, scuze pentru textul lung, dar mi s-a spus ca nu pot posta link-ul direct.
In ceea ce priveste capacitatea corpului uman sa manance, digere si sa foloseasca 200g de proteine intr-o singura masa...
Dupa cum am mentionat, voi reveni sa discut punctele sensibile daca cineva doreste. De asemenea, tin sa precizez ca am spus ca nu conteaza cand mananci sau daca mananci toate caloriile dintr-o zi intr-o singura masa, nu am spus ca 4 sau 6 mese pe zi nu functioneaza sau ca o singura masa pe zi este 'mai buna', ci doar ca nu este nici o diferenta. Personal mananc de la 1 la 5 mese pe zi in functie de rutina din ziua respectiva, dar chiar nu exista vreo diferenta dpdv al dezvoltarii musculare sau sanatatii.
Totodata, cand revin as dori sa discut despre 'metabolism' fiindca Gilu a precizat intr-un post anterior ca mancatul unei singure mese sau 2 pe zi ar schimba metabolismul, cel mai probabil ducand la incentinire, lucru care este un mit.
Ok deci scuze ca dispar (si pentru uratenia acestui post) dar voi reveni in una sau doua zile.
Multumesc pentru rabdare.
as fi curios sa imi spui cum se pot minca 3000calori din care 200g proteina la o singura masa....asa pentru curiozitatea mea
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